Jamie Levy With Nick Kozmin

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

People materials procurement masterminds buy sell business customer craig process Jamie terms negotiate corporate regulations innovation big deal problem understand

SPEAKERS

Jamie (85%), Nick (15%) 

Nick Kozmin

0:02

Alright guys, we have Mr. Jamie levy here from Pdnhub.com. Jamie, how’s it going today? As good Good morning, good afternoon, I’m not sure where you’re going next. So good morning for me.

Nick Kozmin

0:17

For me, too. So Jamie has been a customer of ours sell for sale for a little bit. And he is servicing his target market or his niche is professional buyers, see if CEOs or CFOs of small medium size enterprises 10 million to 100 million. And the problem that he’s solving is how do these companies get better values for their purchase for their purchasing, and therefore save money and increase profits? So Jamie, it’s always better to hear from the horse’s mouth. Who are you helping? What problem do you solve? Why are you guys so enthusiastic about the solution?

Jamie Levy

0:57

So we’re, we’re helping, we’re helping people who buy who spend money. And pretty much everyone spends money, wherever you are, everyone, everyone loves to spend money. Okay, problem is, is that not everyone spends? Well, some people are very good at it naturally. So you know, going down to the market, haggling over bags, and those kinds of things, some people naturally gifted at it, some people aren’t. And those people need help.

Jamie Levy

1:24

And that could be you know, could be you going to buy a car, which is a massive purchase, you know, when you’ve got to sign that 20 page lease agreement that we all haven’t got a clue what we’re signing, yet we sign up to multi billion dollar deals, it doesn’t matter, the process is the same. It’s just trying to help those people who don’t naturally get help, because the large corporates can always pay for the experience and help, whereas the smaller businesses can’t afford. So I was trying to bring that training and experience to those people. Got it. So walk me through your story, like a customer that you’ve helped, like,

Nick Kozmin

2:03

say what, what comes to mind.

Jamie Levy

2:05

So we’re right in the beginning, but in terms of in terms of customers that have helped and people that have helped in the past, you know, I’ve worked with lots of different companies in terms of training them, and developing them and moving them forward. So, you know, I’ve had lots of training programmes, lots of materials that we’ve developed for them, and run through. But I mean, it’s kind of if I give you a simple, like a very simple story of something. Now I was working with a friend, this is a friend that I’ll use, just to try and give you an everyday example of where people need help. And he was out buying a car and spending a large amount on a car. And he started talking to me about you know, I need to buy a car and I’ve never really bought one before. It’s always been something I’ve got through work. And and I said okay, fine, not a problem, you know, what are you looking for? So we kind of went, I don’t know, I’m really, you know, I need a car. And he wasn’t really bothered. So I said, Okay, does he need four wheels or three wheels? And he said, four wheels? So I said, Okay, well, there we go, we’re starting to find, say, the starting places What you need is, and we started to look at things started to say, Well, okay, does it need four wheels? Does it need an engine? Does it need a big engine? You know, Does your wife want a green car? Or a red car or a blue car? What does it need colour? That so all of these are drilling down into what his specific need is? And then we start going into, you know, when’s the right time to buy a car? Some people know, yep, but the end of the quarter, perfect salesman, want to hit the target. So that time that’s on market information that you start to understand. So what’s going on the market, you know, we’ve just come out of COVID. And the recession, and you know, probably four months ago was the best time to buy a car right now, not necessarily, but four months ago was the best time to buy a car. So you know, you kind of you start those discussions at that point. And then you build up a plan of what you need where you need to go. So that’s just and we ended up going through and we bought a car and we negotiated the deal, and it was fine. And it’s just a case of what I’m trying what I’m trying to say to people is everyone needs to do this. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing. Small Business, big business. If you’re small business, you know, when the CEO comes in and says, Hey, I need to buy 20 vending machines for the site we’ve got and you’ve got, you know, it could be an assistant that needs to buy them. She has no idea how to buy 20 vending machines. So what are the things you need to watch out for what are the things you need to be careful for and again, I’ve done that before. We’ve worked and helped people on those kind of smaller deals where you know, people want help, but because they don’t know what to do, and is there

Nick Kozmin

4:50

would there be like a minimum purchasing amount that where it starts to make sense, like 100 Grand 50 grand where to start selling makes sense for you guys?

Jamie Levy

5:00

Yeah, I mean, the minimum purchase, you wouldn’t want to probably go less than about 100, Grand 150 grand, 200 grand. But you know, if somebody’s buying, you know, you can provide a car for us in terms of what we’re setting up web based, it can be anything. absolutely anything, it doesn’t matter what I want, you just what you would do is, the bigger the purchase, the more detail you would need to go through.

Nick Kozmin

5:25

Right? So. Got it. So you’ve been helping. You’ve been helping people do this for how many years or 20 years

Jamie Levy

5:32

I’ve been doing. So I my background is human supply chain. I’ve been doing it for 25 years, I’ve been a global CPO of corporates, I’ve worked with small companies, I’ve sat on the SAT in the UK and the Treasury. I’ve sat have negotiated multi billion dollar deals, multi billion pound deals all over the world and trained this in us, South America, Europe, some parts of Asia and Australia, as well. Got

Nick Kozmin

6:01

it. Got it. So now you have a programme and app that’s helping folks go through the process that you’ve learned through that 20 year experience or 25 years of experience.

Jamie Levy

6:11

Yeah. So there’s, there’s three parts to what would what we have, which is, the first part is kind of the materials that people need. So it’s kind of like, you know, going through being able to tick the box and say, right, I’ve looked at that, I don’t want to go into too much detail. But I’ve looked at that. And it’s being able to have those memory joggers in the materials. But we’ll do that. The second part of what we call a mastermind, so that’s kind of, you know, if I want to go into real detail on some subject, then we run mastermind sessions for that. So if I wanted to learn negotiation, we might also bring in certain experts that we see to those sessions, if we have enough people that want you know, experts on master on negotiation that we might go and get somebody who is, you know, an absolute negotiator, you know, we’ve talked about bringing in specific negotiators to do that. I personally will learn from a couple of guys who were hostage negotiators. Completely different ballgame when you do that versus me negotiating for, you know, and I could negotiate in a million or 2 million, but somebody’s life is a little bit different. And then, you know, this third party too, is what we’re calling a mentor exchange. So the idea is to bring those retired people back, because the skills they have is immense. Now the problem is, is that we lose that skill, we lose that talent, especially through COVID. These people are on the verge of retirement, they’re going to have a big problem in terms of getting jobs again. So we want to give them something they can do a few hours here a few hours there and connect with people who want those skills in what we’re calling a mentor exchange. Yep, those are the three key prongs to what we’re building.

Nick Kozmin

7:55

Got it. That makes sense. And yeah, it’s such a new project is just getting off the ground. Yeah. Yep. Okay, cool. So let’s talk about some just like key points that we can share. Like, we want to provide as much value as we can to the to the listeners here. So yeah, the we have negotiation is more than price gouging. By actually sell. Yeah, yeah, I’ll

Jamie Levy

8:21

sell on that one.

Nick Kozmin

8:22

So that one, all right. Yes. So

Jamie Levy

8:24

there’s a there’s a typical phrase that was had many years ago, in, in procurement. It’s called Bo HCA. And we you know, a lot of people who are listening who ever done procurement will know what deca stands for. I probably can’t repeat it on here. But you know, it. Generally, when you thi of procurement people, most people thi of God, it’s just going to be another price gouge. And that’s all it is. Price is one part of the whole component, there’s a lot more that we need to consider. You know, if you’re buying a car, you know, just give you an example, buying a car, you know, you need to consider the fact that your car might break down every 10 minutes. So I might buy might buy the cheapest car in the world. But if it breaks down every 10 minutes, how much is that going to cost me? It’s a very, it’s a difficult game, when you’re looking at these things. And that’s why prices and negotiations just prices a lot more into it. There’s a lot more you got to consider. In procurement, what

Nick Kozmin

9:23

are some of the dimensions that are considered?

Jamie Levy

9:27

So there’s, there’s generally five, if it’s specifically a service, so you’d look at things and the order would be you look at assurance of supply, am I going to get the product, because that’s probably quite key. You know, I could pay the favour at the cheapest price, but I can’t get the product. It’s gonna be a complete waste of time. Then quality, what quality do I actually want? Do I want a Rolls Royce or do I want a Skoda? Or do I want, you know, do I want a Chevy? What do I want which level of quality do I One, yes. You know, cost is one of, you know, what is the cost that you want to you actually want to have innovation? You know, do I want to buy an Audi that’s going to have innovation that’s going to keep giving me the updates or a Tesla is going to keep giving me those updates every 10 minutes, I’m not going to pay 3000 for the updates are going to happen says innovation, regulation. You know, what the legal constraints around this what whatever got to watch out for? If I was buying security services to heavily regulated, right, it’s a heavily regulated industry, and need to know what those regulations are. If you can’t deliver the regulations, then forget it. And those are the kind of those are kind of the key ones. Those are that’s really useful. That’s really useful for sure. So that’s what Okay, cool. So it was one of the first things I would do in anything you buy service services area. But, you know, one of the first things he would always do is understand what’s your fundamental need? Very funny story that’s constantly told to most people who are buyers, and you probably seen them, I don’t remember a space pen that was written made many years ago. So it would write upside down.

Nick Kozmin

11:15

I, I’ve heard this.

Jamie Levy

11:18

Right. So there’s a space pen that wrote upside down and they spent millions developing the space pan and the astronaut was in, in the space station and getting really annoyed because it wouldn’t work. And eventually turned around. He was just shouting, saying it’s not working. He shouted to one of the other Russian astronauts said I just want something or write upside down. And the man threw in the pencil. Yeah, they’d haven’t fundamentally understood what are the needs, they want, you know, your needs, it’s very easy to do the rest. But they didn’t need to spend millions of millions on developing an upside down pen pencil would have done the job. Yeah. So that’s kind of like how basic you need to be in terms of trying to get get the needs, right, when you’re doing these things.

Nick Kozmin

12:01

Got it? Okay, cool. That was that? No, that’s really useful. So buying is actually selling to maybe we expand on that point. Yes. So what does that mean?

Jamie Levy

12:11

If If I’m buying something, so when you speak to, if you speak to buyers who are in a big corporate world, they spend most of their time in the wrong areas, what they do is they spend most of the time actually trying to convince people internally and selling to them what they actually need, because they’re required, their needs aren’t actually what they thi they are. So you, you, you tend to find somebody else say, Well, I actually need this. And then when you define that, and the way we do that is the adult if you’ve ever done the five why’s with babies with children, so the children says Why? And then they say why? And they say why. And they say what, if you keep going down that route, you find the fundamental need, you find out what they really need. And when you get to that point of what they really need, you can then start to convince them, that what you’re actually selling to them is actually the right thing. So you’re constantly selling, you’re constantly saying, hey, do you need this an example of something I did many moons ago, there was a drug company I was working for, that had a product, and they designed it was beautiful, it looks amazing. But it was a six colour product, what they didn’t understand was, which I had to explain to them and sell was that if they took one colour off, the product would cost half the amount. They didn’t understand that the printing process had five days, five stations, because it had five stations. As soon as you put a six colour on, you had to redo the whole thing again, you had to go through the whole process again. So they suddenly went okay, so we’re going to half the price of the product. If I take one colour out, yes. Okay, we’ll take the one colour on it. People don’t get that. And that’s, again, part of the selling, I’ve got to sell to you. So that you understand. I’ve got to make sure you understand what I’m trying to do.

Nick Kozmin

14:05

Got it. Okay, cool. And this is from the perspective of the procurement person.

Jamie Levy

14:10

Yes. So I’m the person who’s the buyer, if I’m in a corporate world, and I’m the expert, you know, I’m the one who spent, you know, I spend every day we say, when you actually doing this, you should spend 60% of your time with your suppliers, you should spend 40% of your time internally, you actually find it’s the other way around a lot of the time internally, because a lot of time trying to sell what you know is the right solution, but actually because people don’t really understand and you’re trying to explain it to them. So you know, you become an expert, generally in a corporate environment, you become an expert in one area. So, you know, I’ve spent 2025 years wondering from corporate to corporate. I thi our last count have been in about 17 corporates, which is more than most people will ever do in their entire life. Most people kind of do three companies in their entire lives, I’ve done that 17 already. And that’s not including a few others that would be very short, small ones. And you know, you, you become the expert in that area. So if I’m the expert buyer, for example, in property services, I become the expert in property. And you know, you’re dealing with an expert in property, but I’m a commercial person, that’s what I am, I’m just a commercial beast, that’s what you want me to do. That’s where you want me to be, I need to understand everything around the commercials. So that’s what I did. And that’s, that’s what it is. So that’s why it runs that way.

Nick Kozmin

15:41

Got it. And so with all the fixes experience, that is that the thesis upon which the built the business was built.

Jamie Levy

15:50

Yeah, it’s, it’s so it’s built upon the fact that I have that experience, and also, that I want to bring that to the masses, I want to bring it to help people, you know, we want we want to help people in in specific areas, when they want help, you know, I thi certain elements that are personally good for me to give back, I mean, we’ve discussed, myself and the co founder of discussed, and what we’re going to be doing is we’re we’re going to be giving a certain percentage of what we earned back to charity. And that will put it It won’t be as writing a check, it will be us actually physically doing something, or buying something showing our skills and doing that, because that it’s important for us to give back, it’s important for us to, you know, help people that need help. But also, trying to bring this to the masses is obviously, the way we do that, I thi a lot of people in the market, what I’ve seen, historically is the materials that I or as any other individuals need to run. And that’s a one part, which is the materials and the training. That’s something that is very difficult to come by, you know, every different Every company has their own version of that version of the truth. So actually, what we’re saying is, here’s one, that’s it, you sign up, you pay a monthly subscription. And that’s it. And we have a wizard in the middle. So when updates come through, or when there are changes, we will update all of that for you. So you just get access to all the materials, and then tools and templates training, how you look at how you learn all of that live. So you can just run through that whenever you want. And you can download and use the tools and templates wherever you want.

Nick Kozmin

17:32

Got it. And so the best type of customer who can who can benefit the most. Because typically, when you’re starting out, you want to go with one in one direction and serve as a customer, where you have a domain, you understand that you have domain expertise. It’s high price, high, high value. So what who’s the best customer that can benefit from this right now?

Jamie Levy

17:56

So there’s two types. There’s two types of customers. There’s two Well, obviously, there’s three strands in time in terms of the business. Yep, so with those three strands, they’d probably be different types of customers. So if our masterminds are people who really want to get real detailed understanding from experienced practitioners, so if you’re somebody that says, hey, I, you know, I want to get the detailed understanding on how to do property, what we’ll do is we’ll do that breadth of experience and understanding how the processes and potentially bring in some of those real detailed experts, you know, if we could get a, you know, our, my ideal would be on negotiation would be have somebody like Chris boss set again, is like FBI, lead negotiator trains all over the world, you know, how to work when somebody says to me, okay, I want to do negotiation, that’s what I wanted to, you know, and we do a session on negotiation. So we’ll give you the general where does negotiation fit into the process, and we bring in the absolute expert on that. I can teach it, I can teach fundamentals of negotiation, but I’m certainly not going to profess to be a Chris vos in the world. You know, I’m going to profess to be a person that knows all of that process and be able to help you through that process, right of buying anything.

Nick Kozmin

19:14

But as far as the cost the customer who would be like a type of customer, like, what industry what size, who would be the who would be the person

Jamie Levy

19:24

type of type of customer, we so we’re aiming for, you know, we thi a small to medium sized business. So the business is over, say 20 million in terms of revenue, but probably under about 100 100 and 50 million, they tend to have permanent procurement people who on payroll, so it’s somewhere between 20 and 100 100 and 50 million in terms of size of business. We were targeting the legal sector at the moment. We’re going after legal businesses, but an example You know, I’ve just picked up I’m having a conversation. This week with the Scottish Government, because they want to talk to me about the international division that they have. So that’s one that’s just come out where it’s a customer. But you know, that’s our target would be those businesses anything bigger than that, they’ll have a permanent procurement guy smaller than that they can’t afford to. Yep, that’s where our training will really help those people, and really help them move up the scale very quickly. God, whatever the bone. Got it?

Nick Kozmin

20:28

Is that how they are? No, that’s it. No, that’s great. So that that makes it very clear. Um, let’s go through another point by engaging with suppliers in a collaborative problem solving posture, everybody can win. So what does that mean?

Jamie Levy

20:40

Yeah, I mean, you know, we, we talk about the win win scenario, being the best way to do these things. So you do get in Look, there are times when you’ve got to be aggressive with splats. That’s just the reality of the world. You know, in history, I’ve worked with companies where they are going barupt. So when a company is going barupt, they say, You’ve never worked in procurement until you’ve worked with a company that’s going barupt, because you have to do things you’ll never do. Again, I always tell the story of negotiating with a company who was a taxi cab company in slouch in the UK, and we’d overpaid them 6k. And the company was going barupt. And this was a corporate, and we’d overpaid them six grand, and I had to go and ask them for the money back. That was that badly in the red. So you know, that was one time where you have to be aggressive. And that’s just the way it is. But there are other times where you work with so what you have to understand is that my company won’t work unless I get those products in, or those services in. Yep. So it’s, it’s a two way game. The suppliers need our money, they need the orders. And we need that product. So that services, so the best way to do it is collaboratively is to work with them to try and deliver. Whereas you work, you know, you fight them constantly, all the time, you won’t get the extra mile. And you know, these example of that, you know, we’ve all done it, we’ve all had the, you know the guy who’s the contractor at home that comes to the house and says I’ll do your flooring for you. And then we go and negotiate the price down and down and down and down and down. until there’s no margin left. Well, the problem being is, is that what’s going to happen, they’re gonna have to upsell you, you know, it’s coming. Yeah, whenever it comes, you know, it’s coming. So the upsell comes, because you’ve hit them too hard, there’s no room for them to manoeuvre. And that becomes so it’s not you’ve, you’ve started a relationship and a win lose. And now it’s going to be a win lose. But it’s probably going to go the other way now, because they’re going to get you down the road. So win wins, generally the only way for it to work.

Nick Kozmin

22:48

So let’s get in that contractor example. What’s the better way to do it? Well, you

Jamie Levy

22:53

negotiate you negotiate the deal, you actually understand what the margin is. Yeah, if you know what my money they’re making, you know, then it’s easy to say, Well, hey, you’re making money on this, you know that. And I know that. And you can see what’s really going on. So if you go up the corporate scale more the larger contracts with absolutely no wanting to sell what the margins are that they’re making?

Nick Kozmin

23:15

And how it How’d you know, how’d you know that,

Jamie Levy

23:18

because we compare it to same as you’ll do at home, we’ll get seven or eight quotes back, or, you know, we’ll tender it, we’ll negotiate, we’ll find all the criteria or measure monitor against the needs that we’ve got sale, define your needs, and ra and score those. And then because we do that, we’ll actually be able to say this supplier is the best one that meets our needs to that. And that’s kind of the best way to do it. And it’s a win win, you know, but what I’m saying is we won’t, you know, I thi there’s people who are out there who always want to get the last penny, always get the last dollar. And it’s well known people do that. But if there’s no margin, you’re guaranteed the cost of coming back.

Nick Kozmin

24:01

Yeah, because coming back,

Jamie Levy

24:04

oh, they’re gonna do another thing which you just walk off the job in the middle of the job. Yeah, thas. I’m

Nick Kozmin

24:07

worth it. Yeah. And how do you how do you determine the quality differences? Like, what’s that process is as a procurement officer, so is it references? How does that work?

Jamie Levy

24:21

Oh, the all of that you’ve just mentioned could all be items that define quality. So, you know, it could be references from previous work. It could be you know, they’ve got to meet certain standards, QoS standards, em standards, whatever they’ve got to be. So that could be quality standards. The definition of quality has to be worked with the internal business, right? So I’m not going to say this is the best quality or the worst quality. You can also you know, you look at previous jobs that they’ve done, you go and go and look and assess the previous jobs. You go and get references from previous jobs, right. All of these are actually qualities Standard stay, you can, you can make it qualitative. And it can be quantitative, it doesn’t matter. You can have interviews, you know, when I’ve done catering tenders, we’ve actually brought them in and they brought their best work. Right? We assess their best work and say, is that the best work? So, you know, we had, I did a catering tender across the UK, and go across the UK and US. And they brought samples, they all made samples, they brought samples in and the internal business tried out and said, Okay, this is the best one, from what we determined is good food. This is the best one that has quality, they define quality and that way, everyone has their own standard. Hmm, that makes sense.

Nick Kozmin

25:41

And how does one say yeah, the other one was the regulation? How so? What’s the process on on figuring that out?

Jamie Levy

25:49

So regulations quite, it’s actually, you know, it’s kind of the bottom of what we call the pillar of needs, because he can’t be the regulation, forget it to come in and start. So it’s kind of, you know, we need to know what the regulations are. So early in the process, we’ll probably go out and do what’s called a request for information as part of the process. And that will one of the questions will generally ask is what regulations you must meet was must we comply with? Right? And we’ll get told us. So by the time we’ve pulled in five or six different suppliers, you’ve all told me what those are. I now know what the regulations are. do my research speak to the internal lawyers be to externalise? Now, I know what the regulations must be. So when you send the tender out, you say, can you comply with this? Yes or no? And if the answer’s no, you know, you can’t take them? If the answer is yes, move forwards. It’s like, God, it’s kind of a monopoly that do not pass go.

Nick Kozmin

26:43

Got it? And what about the other point, the innovation point? How would you assess the innovation point?

Jamie Levy

26:49

innovations are was an interesting one. Because most people look at that and thi, you know, how, how do I define that? What do I say? It depends on what you’re looking for in innovation. So if you were looking for a long term caterer, I’ll give you an example that, then you’re looking at how what what is our need and innovation? So for example, you know, we need them to adopt a menu every quarter, we need to change the menu. So that’s innovation, how are they going to do that? What’s going to happen in terms of following that new menu every quarter? If it’s technology, so if I was buying, if I was buying mobile phones, this is another simple example. I’ve been feeling dumb for many years mobile phones. Yeah, how are we going to move up the scale? My business has engineers who are on the road every day, how are we going to move the innovation forward so that today, what we need is a system that will get my engineers to the job. Tomorrow, what I need is a system that will ensure that the engineers are delivering everything that I need to be doing throughout the whole job. So that’s innovation, and then we’ll say, okay, over the next three years, this is what we need to do. How are you going to help us hit that? And what the suppliers will do is tell us how we’re going to meet those innovation targets. Right. Does that help?

Nick Kozmin

28:12

Yep, absolutely. So it sounds like if, if a if somebody were to be selling to someone with the procurement department, if they get addressed those five things, is it going to be delivered? The quality, the price, the innovation, and the legals and the regulations, if they could put together a package and make that as detailed as possible? That would make the procurement job a lot easier?

Jamie Levy

28:37

Yeah, so so my job, my job as the procurement guy is to take the needs from the business. Yep, express them in a in a very succinct way to the market, and then get that response back the answers where the business wants to be today and in the future. And that’s one party one part of what I did. And so 100% You’re right, but it’s my job to get that, right. It’s my job to make that succinct is my job to get that into one document that everyone can understand that right in the process.

Nick Kozmin

29:16

Yeah. And, and understanding that would be your job, it would be useful for a salesperson to try to make your job as easy as possible by 100%. Yeah, okay. So that’s, so that’s useful for our listeners, because everyone’s selling something and a lot of themselves in procurement. So if we can make that job as as easy as possible.

Jamie Levy

29:36

So that’s another market that we, you know, teaching people how the procurement process works. Yep. One of the one of the key people that needs to know how the procurement process works is sales people sales people, because they’re dealing with salespeople that procurement people day in, day out so when you talk to small and medium sizes, it’s really interesting because when you talk to small and medium sized business salespeople, they’re always dealing with the larger procurement people, because they want those accounts they want to be able to deal with, you know, if you’re in the US, you want to be able to deal with the buyers of Walmart, you want to be able to deal with the buyers of Lowe’s, you want to be able to deal with a buyers of Walgreens, you know, and if you want to deal with those people, you need to understand how they work. Guess what? That’s what we teach?

Nick Kozmin

30:23

Yeah. Okay, so that sounds like a pretty good problem to solve as well. So I know you guys are early. So what’s the goal of the business? It’s you started? Let’s see here, a few months ago,

Jamie Levy

30:35

yeah. What’s,

Nick Kozmin

30:35

what’s the overarching goal for, for you, for you and Craig.

Jamie Levy

30:41

So short term we’re doing we’re following your process, obviously. So we’re bootstrapping the business in short term. So we’ve targeted ourselves at a million in revenue, 12 months. And then the target we want to go after is between two and two years, ideally, two years at 5 million, that’s what we want to have. And then we see it as exponential. But it’s it, the way we want to do it is in is in those three areas, the three different pillars of the business. So the mentor exchange, the training, and the masterminds, we see it in three different ways. And we’re building the business, we’re building the business on the basis of the need, as we’ve talked about those you have new materials, you know, we’re going out to customers, we’ve now validated the theory of the three elements with at least 15 people. So I know it says in your materials, it’s 10, we’ve been out to 15, and got it validated that it’s actually a need that will be satisfied. And obviously, I’ve spoken to some customers already that talking about using us. So it’s just kind of closing some of those deals, but also we’ll be offering it to the masses. So that’s where we start to talk about the materials and the mastermind, they’re going to be offered to the masses. So we will be offering Coming up, we’ll be offering some free sessions for people. So they actually get an understanding of what we’re doing. And hopefully, we hope we know that it will generate money from the back of that. So that’s where we kind of that’s our bootstrapping, like, if that makes sense.

Nick Kozmin

32:19

Got it. So right now, if you’re listening, if you’re legal between 10 and 100 million, right 150 150 or your maybe even a sales department who wants to learn how to sell into the procurement. I see that mate, I know our customers might be interested, you might pick up a few sales price sale members as customers. Where can they find you, Jamie? Where where can they go?

Jamie Levy

32:45

We’re on where? www dot Pdn

Nick Kozmin

32:48

hub.com. pn hub calm. Okay, the Pdn hub calm got Yes.

Jamie Levy

32:56

Is procurement development network.

Nick Kozmin

32:58

Gotcha. And who should they be speaking to Jamie or Craig at the moment to both of us where we’re here 24 seven. So just give us a call,

Jamie Levy

33:08

send us an email. We’re happy. I’m Jamie at pdn. hub, calm and Craig is Craig at pdn. hub calm, just send us a message, give us a call. We’re happy to talk even if it’s just to have a chat and you’re not sure it was a call, send us an email. We’re No, we’re pretty happy to talk to people. And you know, Craig Craig, unfortunately, couldn’t make it today. You know, but Craig’s background, Craig’s a huge traders, CTO who’s worked with lots of small companies. He’s got a massive wealth of background in terms of being able to develop these things. So you know, Craig is fantastic person again to talk to his belt. He’s he’s built small companies before as well. So you know, you know, we both have a huge wealth of experience. Happy to talk to anyone. Awesome.

Nick Kozmin

33:56

Well, Jamie, I appreciate it. It’s very, that was very useful. I’m sure people will find that useful, and will do as well in the call here. And yeah,

Nick Kozmin

34:05

I really do appreciate your time. All right. Thas, Nick. No problem. Yes, well, okay, Jamie.

Nick Kozmin

34:13

Yeah, that was great. So we’ll end the recording at that point. Um, that was good. I just wanted to ask you some quick question for

Nick Kozmin

34:23

before we jump off. So as far as always, I’m always wondering what like, why did you and Craig sign up for sales process?

Jamie Levy

34:37

I Oh, just for our internal understanding. Craig’s the experts, the experts so well, you know, I said to Craig, I’m gonna I will tell Nick the truth, but whether we like it, whichever. So Craig, what I’ve kind of done as Craig was the guy who said sales process that I Oh, let’s go through that in terms of where it is. So he’s the expert who can tell them why sales process, not anything else. And, you know, that’s where I rely on Craig. Because I’m kind of like the, I guess my, my sort of experience is kind of saying, Craig, tell me what I need to do. Next, Next, giving us the process of you need to do this, this, this, this, that’s, so you tell me what I need to do, Craig. And I’ll just get it all done. So Craig knows, I’m the on the machine that churns everything out. Yeah, he just comes to me and says, right, I need the copy for this, or I need this. And I just throw it straight at him. So I thi that’s probably my easiest answer for you. In terms of where it is, in terms of my sales process, I thi, you know, from what I’ve seen, and I’ve been through them some materials. You know, I thi it’s, you know, it’s the, it’s the experience of going from zero to something like that we need we need to get on that scale quickly. Yeah, what we don’t want to know. So the truth is, we were looking at it as something, you know, we would sell this business out at some point, we’re not looking at it as something we want to build up to 100 200 300 million, you know, it is what it is. We want to get it to a point that we know we can sell it out and then say thas very much. It’s great. So we want to get that pillar as fast as we can. We don’t want to be sitting here in six months time going, we haven’t sold anything, we’re doing nothing. So I thi that’s that was the experience when I looked at sales process. Yep. That’s the experience that you’ve got is building from something to know from nothing to something very quickly.

Nick Kozmin

36:35

That’s interesting. So the goal is, and what revenue level is that? In your opinion?

Jamie Levy

36:43

estimates would be so because we’re doing so the way materials works is we’re looking at a subscription basis on the materials, masterminds would be different. A mentor exchange would be different because the materials is a subscription basis. And on that basis, it would be Software as a Service rather than a standard, a standard business that would be a consultant, kind of consultancy. So Software as a Service base was our estimate about 7x. Ray techs would be like a sell reasonable sell 7x revenue? Yeah, seven excellent revenue. Yeah. Whereas if we go in the consultancy, we’re on EBIT. So we’re kind of like, you know, we’re not sure that that it’s going to be a lot harder again, to do that. Yeah. So in terms of target, we both talked about what number we would need to walk away is the simple answer. And we both said, if you can get 20 million out of each demo done. Yep. So we’re looking at like 14 million, 14 million sale. So if it’s a 40 million sale, you’re going to divide that by eight, there’s like, you know, five, somewhere between five and 10 million on the revenue that we need to hit. And then we looked at how many, if we were selling the materials, at about 3040 pounds, dollars a shot in terms of sign up. So we need somewhere between about six and 10,000 subscribers, probably closer to the 10. And once we hit the 10,000, then, based on what we’ve read itself process, if we get to that level, it’s kind of like it will feed itself. Yeah. And, you know, the target is to sell to like Deloitte, or you know, those guys that used to work for KPMG, those kind of guys who can then take that platform and move it forwards or a VC or a PA, whichever, they can take it forwards. But that’s the, that’s the target for us. If it if it absolutely skyrocketed, we might stay in. But you know, otherwise, you know, we’re not, we’re not in it to be in it for the rest of our lives.

Nick Kozmin

38:48

So the five to 7 million mark is probably that’s an interesting point. Like, I love hearing the actual goals of the customer by over 7 million. And then what’s your strategy for making it as much SAS as possible, like, and how do you make that because like to get that multiple, you’re gonna need some recurring, some recurring revenue, right?

Related Article: Jamie Levy Guest Talk at Coventry University

Jamie Levy

39:07

Yeah. So that’s why that’s why I’m saying it’s a subscription model on the materials. So the model is that you basically, you sign up. So whether it’s masterminds or mentor exchange, they’re actually interconnected. So if you go into mentor exchange, you connect with a mentor and you want to work with them, they’re going to pull down the materials. So now you you connected on the Venture Exchange, and the mastermind is exactly the same. We’re going to use the materials in the mastermind to teach bonding materials, people will sign up to use the materials. We had a big discussion or Craig and I about, well, if somebody signs up, I’ve seen another product where they had the materials and I did it myself, I signed up cost me 100 bucks to sign up. I just downloaded all the templates and then said thas for you know, I’ve done it once. And that’s it. So we have one What we’re building is something called a wizard inside that. So that’s the iterative processes learning process that you’re not going to get if you walk away, because we looked at, you know, I’ve looked at, you know, used to buy software. So I know exactly how Microsoft works in terms of being able to do that. So it’s the extra two learning that you need. Now, if you don’t have access to that material, so you stopped paying, we cut you off. Now, whatever you’ve downloaded, you’ve downloaded, there’s nothing I can do about that that’s going to happen on any product, whatever you are, you know, if you’ve signed up for Microsoft, it’s done when you when you sign up. But the point being is, is that you don’t get any of the updates. So any of the learnings we get from people, any of the examples that we get from people, any of the updates to those materials, which will happen constantly. Yep. And we’re going to be doing them monthly. So we’re going to have a major monthly, there’ll be a monthly update for everything that we do. If you don’t, you don’t have the subscription, you don’t get it. Right.

Nick Kozmin

41:00

Got it. So you got Yeah, that’s

Jamie Levy

41:02

what keeps it in the subscription model as opposed to anything else. So Craig and I talked about the masterminds because you can look at like a Tony Robbins. He’s kind of like your There’s your masterminds. That’s how he does it. 365 for 50,000 people, and then they come in and sign is fantastic. But the thing is with him is he has a whole bunch of he never actually gives you the materials, right? You never get the materials from at all. Even if you go to his date with destiny workshop that cost you eight grand or 10 grand, he still gives you a printed version of everything, you cannot download anything. Yep, there is nothing available. There’s no materials, all you can do is listen to his podcast. So, you know, again, what we’ll be doing is we’ll only be issuing things in PDF. So yeah, can somebody convert it back to, you know, convert it? Yeah, they can. But we’ve been really go through some hassle to do that. So everything will be PDF, and then the actual materials that you use online, you can adjust it online. Now when you take it offline, you can’t play with the

Nick Kozmin

42:06

right system. materials. The Wizard is important. And yes, and using the templates within the product is important. Yeah,

Jamie Levy

42:14

yeah. And that software as a service, because the masterminds is probably what will deliver is bigger money. In the short term. Yeah, but it’s not going to give you the multiple, because, you know, look, I can teach anyone. So when you do procurement, people tell you that you can be a tea person, which is like, breadth and depth. So depth is your knowledge of the subject. breadth is your knowledge of the process. So I believe that most people are breath, then they need to be breadth, depth you get in time, you can teach any idiot How to Buy phones, you can teach any idiot how to buy. By construction, it doesn’t really matter what it is, long you do it, the more depth you get. But knowing the process, you can jump from one to the next to the next. And most people don’t want to stay in the same thing for 25 years. Most people want to move, especially younger people get bored. They want to move. So you know, you teach them the process, which is what we’re going to teach, we’re going to do a couple of free sessions as well, where we’re going to run like a half, like a half day, obviously say to people come You know, we’ll do it once a month. And we’ll just do a free session, which will only teach like two or three, two or three things. Yep, that’s it done. Now you’ve got a taster of what we’re actually going to deliver. If you want the materials, pay 30 a month, 40 bucks a month. If you want the materials, you can have access to all the materials, the whole process everything. Because the trick neck in this is. The trick is is that most corporates by this process, the process that I’m sort of selling most corporates by at what they do is they go to the likes of McKinsey, they go to the likes of KPMG all these big guys. And basically they get them to redesign it. And they charge half a million for that process to be redesigned every time. But it’s the same ship. It ain’t changing. I’ve done it for 25 years, it ain’t changed. It’s the same stuff. It’s a few tweaks here and there. But I’m saying I’m going to rip that industry apart because I’m going to offer the offer it on a subscription basis rather than everyone paying these consultancies half a million to do enough to do nothing. Right. That’s why I thi the consultancies will be after after a while because they’re not stupid. No, they know that they can. If this has got enough subscribers from the industry last, then then I thi they’ll go after it. The second part is, which is in the background, and I’m not mentioning this to anyone I mentioned to you, is exactly the same as Facebook. You know, it’s the banner ads. It’s the actual data face that will have. Because if you imagine you just talked about salespeople, yeah, you’re a salesman that sells it to corporate or wherever it is, you work for Dell, you are courageous. I will be, I will be the database of all of those it people. So now you’re going to want to market banner ads, everything to those it people. You know if you’re down if you’re HP, if you’re Apple, whoever you are, I’ve got those corporate guys on my site, right there. And I know they’re it buyers and I can tell you that those guys spend 200 million a year or 100 million year, I spent 1.2 billion a year pounds on it hardware. You know, you can now market to me. Yeah, where else can you market direct to those corporate buyers?

Nick Kozmin

45:52

Yeah, that that’s very valuable once it gets going.

Jamie Levy

45:56

Yep. Well, that’s where I thi that’s where big the money comes in. Because once that starts flowing, once you’ve got the people signed up, then you start you’ve got the database. That’s awesome.

Nick Kozmin

46:09

Well, Jamie, I appreciate the time. It’s been great. We’ll speak soon.

Other Resources: Procurement Management